thomasjl
Charter Member
18 posts (Sign in front of house says "For Sale - By Neighbors")
Mar-04-01, 05:45 PM (PST)
"Buying TR3b"
Well guys please help me decide. I currently own a 1980 Spitfire. I have never done a proper restoration on the car but I have rebuilt the engine, transmission/overdrive, rear end and replaced the interior. So now I am looking for something else to tinker with and was thinking of a TR3a or b. I have never even seen one of these myths, but from the photos I am starting to really really want one, but I don't know anything about them. So what do you all think, should I get one or would my money be better spent on something else.
Well, that's a bit of a loaded question <g> I love TR3s, (not really interested in later Triumphs), so I'd say : Go for it !
Unless you're mostly interested in showing the car, I wouldn't worry too much about the 3A/3B distinction, since it's entirely under the skin and many 3As have been converted to 3B specs anyway. 3Bs tend to be worth a little more, just because they are rarer.
Compared to the later Triumphs, the TR 2/3/A/Bs are both better engineered, and far more primitive. I'm particularly amazed at how many things they corrected in the first few thousand TR2s, only to get wrong again on later cars (like cam bearings and cable operated hood releases). Driving a TR3 puts you far closer to the elements than other cars : You'll be cold in the winter, hot in the summer, wet in the rain, etc. Lean over a bit, and you can drag your knuckles on the pavement !
Welcome to the addictive world of sidescreen TR's! I got my first one in the early `70's. Still have it in storage. I now drive a TR4 daily (or as much as practical). I used it last winter in below 0 temps to go get a battery and take it to where my minivan died. Not the recommended usage, but it saved me a tow. I don't think they're any less reliable than any other older vehicle, certainly easier to understand. A little wierd in the carbs, positive ground (which can be reversed easily, but I leave them), strange blinker switch, side curtains as the previous post points out that keep out some wind at best, VW old beetle tires, the list goes on. They are lovable to look at and you feel like you're going fast until you really ARE, at which point they are very happy. If you can find one with an overdrive they will interstate cruise at pleasant engine speeds. EBay seems to have a few in various prices and conditions. Also some hard to find bits. Some things that I have learned over the years: Use Girling or Castrol brake fluid but don't spill it on your new paint, don't get old because these things ride like buckboards, be prepared to wave at every kid from 5 to 85, carry a few tools and do lots of preventative maintenance (not just oil changes), enjoy the cars for what they are: a fun way to get around....I honestly enjoy tinkering with them. If you like to mess with cars, too, you'd probably love a TR3. They are kinda like a 4 wheeled motorcycle.
"... kinda like a 4 wheeled motorcycle.", this is exactly how I'd describe it. I've had my '58 TR3A since April '01. I picked it up on ebay, sight unseen. I've tinkered (well maybe more than a little tinkering) and driven it nearly 8,000 miles since, only putting it away last week when the snow (and the salt) finally caught up to me here in the Hudson Valley. It's been a blast. The only thing stopping me (I've forced myself) from riding her is I've removed the windscreen to replace the glazing. If I don't get her upon jacks soon for a maintenance interval I'm sure I'll regret it come spring. I did pick up a heater on ebay and installed it (along with just about all other related heater parts), so I really did have an excuse to keep her on the road ... like you need an excuse for a car so fun to drive.
Being this is for me the first winter (and first "maintenance interval", sic,sic) with a TR3A are there any suggestions or opinions as to what may need attention? I do have some vehicle specific items in mind,but any other suggestions while she's upon jacks?
Ed : If you haven't already, I would definitely suggest getting a copy of the factory owner's manual, variously titled "Driver's Instuction Book" or "Practical Hints for the Maintenance of the Triumph T.R. 3". Moss, TRF, et al, sell reprints. Not everything appears on the 'lube chart' in the back, so you need to sit down with a pad & pencil (or a highliter if you're so inclined) and read through all of the text. There are probably two dozen places to grease, and another two dozen to oil. Working from memory : Grease : (2) rear hubs (3) hand brake cable/compensator (3) driveshaft and U-joints (6) lower front trunnions (2) upper ball joints (4) tie rod ends (0) most likely, you don't have the greasable water pump (2) a very light smear on the door latches (1) a very light smear on the point cam (2) clutch operating shaft
Oil : (1) generator rear bushing (2) inside distributor (2) brake and clutch MC pivots (4) door hinges (4) pedal pivots under the dash. (1) clutch slave pivot (4) carb shafts where they meet the carb body (5) throttle linkage pivots (2) rear springs (brush engine oil, used is OK, onto the sides of the leaves) (4) pivots for vent door and mechanism (1) trunk latch
Check/Adjust : rear brakes hand brake clutch points ignition timing valve clearances carb mixture choke action (does it pull both jets down equally)
I've undoubtedly forgetten many items. I will say that I normally don't worry about carb synchronization, unless I have a specific problem I'm trying to address. And, synchronizing the carbs has never fixed any symptom that I've seen. Likewise, don't mess with the control box if you don't have to. Randall
I picked up more books on TR and 3's than worth mentioning, and read them all. Haynes, "The Complete ..." and an original TR2 owners manual (It's preety cool and was cheap, like $5.00). All particularly maintenance informative. I've already lubed the front end and topped the steering box and intend to lube up all the other obvious points. Your list up is a good check up, I'll use it for starters.
One area I'm having problem with is locating the tranny (gear box) dipstick or sight glass. According to the literature either may be in place (depending on date of manufacture, etc.). As far as the dipstick (filler)in the driving compartment I have the rubber plug but nothing under it that is even remotely like a dipstick or filler hole. Any suggestions? The tranny is the non-sychro 1st gear type and seems to have had the overdrive at one time, though this is not the case now.
As far as carb synchro, I thought I'd comment ... I did this back in August and haven't had to do again. Of course the Uni-sync for the air flow, and I can definately recommend the "Colortune" device for adjusting the mix. It takes all the guess workout of the equation. This sync made a big difference,since I found that 3 & 4 were running considerably richer than 1 & 2. In any case I optimized and balanced all 4 cylinders (2 carbs). Maybe I'll never have to do the mix adjust again, but knowing its right is relieving. Throwing this "Colortune" device on is so easy its almost enjoyable, good for monitoring now.
Anyway, thanks for reading if you've got this far. Till next time.
The dipstick was deleted on later cars, ISTR around TS50000. The top covers interchange, so even if you have an earlier car, it's possible someone has swapped in a later cover. Without the dipstick, the gearbox oil is filled and checked through a pipe plug in the side of the box, accessible (with difficulty) from under the car. I would strongly suggest a 7/16" 8-point socket (Sears, Home Depot, etc.) for removing the plug, it's way too easy to round it off with a open end wrench.
Thanks. That's what I had thought. But according to somewhere I read, and I don't remember exactly where now, there is a site glass located on the tranny. This I hadn't been able to locate. In any case this makes sense, even if I mis-read about the site glass. I had added oil in this pipe plug location for the gear box when I first started tinkering, assuming it to be the only place to add until better info came about.
Yes, it appears that the tranny is from 1960/61(the exact number I forget but >50,000, maybe ~71,000), the engine is in the 38,000's (~Aug 1958), as is the rest of the vehicle, ... wood in the doors, no plinths, black/red front medallion etc., etc. As I go through this baby it appears to be put together from 2 vehicles, mostly a pre 50/60,000 commish # and then some (like the tranny)as the post 50,000.
I think I'll keep this more in mind though as I go through the rear end. Except for this tranny point it hadn't mattered much, so far since most of the post 50,000/60,000 dealt with body changes.
Ed, perhaps I should point out that there was a fairly significant mechanical change at 50,000. The starter motor changed, which required mods to the transmission bellhousing and the flywheel. The early starter can be used with the later gearbox, but the converse is not true (unless you cut a hole in the bellhousing). And, the flywheel needs to match the starter you are using. Some exhaust headers will not fit with the early starter.
Again, makes sense. I did replace the starter a ways back,and low and behold I required the early starter. I ended up using the so called "gear reduction" type, which has proved to be reliable, if not original. I did save the original and mean to refurb at some point.
So, it appears that I have a pre-50,000 engine (the stamping indicates this) and a post-50,000 gear box.
I'll take a closer look at the mechanical changes as listed up in the Bill Piggot "Original TR3..." book for further reference. Thanks.
By the way,I will post a question in the TR3 specific tread related to fuel gauge/sender unit.
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Buying TR3b
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