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Subject: "TR6 Engine swap" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences GT6 & Spit 6 Central GT6 Performance Mods & Competition Prep Topic #8
Reading Topic #8
jester
Charter Member
1 posts (MGB Driver)
Mar-15-01, 05:34 AM (PST)
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"TR6 Engine swap"
 
   I have a 68 GT6 with a completely ruined engine and have a TR6 engine that is in great shape, I have read that they have the same blocks so I was thinking of putting the TR6 engine in the GT, have any of you done this? Don't mind doing minor mods to make it work but don't want to cut on my engine bonnet.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: TR6 Engine swap msecrest Mar-27-01 1
     RE: TR6 Engine swap msecrest Mar-27-01 2
  RE: TR6 Engine swap John R Daviesmoderator Mar-29-01 3
     RE: TR6 Engine swap jester Mar-30-01 4
         RE: TR6 Engine swap John R Daviesmoderator Mar-31-01 5
             RE: TR6 Engine swap jester Sep-14-01 6
                 RE: TR6 Engine swap jester Oct-01-01 7
                     RE: TR6 Engine swap John R Daviesmoderator Oct-02-01 8
                         RE: TR6 Engine swap jarredsdadteam Oct-03-01 9
                             RE: TR6 Engine swap John R Daviesmoderator Oct-03-01 10
                                 RE: TR6 Engine swap jester Oct-05-01 11
                                     RE: TR6 Engine swap jester Mar-15-02 12
                                         RE: TR6 Engine swap snowygrouch Mar-15-02 13
                                             RE: TR6 Engine swap John R Daviesmoderator Mar-17-02 14

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msecrest
Charter Member
Mar-27-01, 03:14 AM (PST)
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1. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #0
 
   Well, the early GT6 block had a few peculiarities not found in the TR6 engine, but the good news is that yes, you can use the TR6 engine in your GT6. The problem area is the transmission, i.e., mating the two. I believe you will need to use the GT6 flywheel to use the GT6 tranny, but don't quote me on that. But it is do-able.

You cannot, however, use the TR6 tranny in your GT6 -- it's too big. That's too bad, because the GT6 transmission has a shorter-than-average lifespan.

--
Martin Secrest
Arlington, VA


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msecrest
Charter Member
Mar-27-01, 03:16 AM (PST)
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2. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #1
 
   And oh yeah ... you won't have to modify the bonnet for the engine swap.


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John R Daviesmoderator
Charter Member
2555 posts (A TTN governor, governor)
Mar-29-01, 03:05 PM (PST)
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3. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #0
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-01 AT 03:10 PM (Pacific)

The block is identical - I think you may need to change the rear engine plate to fit the GT6 gearbox. You will need to change the front plate. You will also need to change the sump, or it will foul the front cross member. The GT6 sump will fit, IF you bash it out to clear Nos.1&2 big ends.

I think that the carbs will foul the bonnet. Try bolting them onto the existing block to try for fit. A Pi engine may not be a problem.

Another possibilty is, fit a GRP bonnet, cut that about and keep the steel one in store for another time!


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jester
Charter Member
1 posts (MGB Driver)
Mar-30-01, 03:12 PM (PST)
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4. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #3
 
   Since the block is the same is the difference in the height of the cylender head?? Is their a difference in the size of the valves, the combustion chamber, if not why couldn't I use the head off the gt6? The cam off the TR6? Including the carbs off the GT6? I am going to go through the TR6 engine anyway and will re-ring the engine, as well as new crank, and rod bearings, with a possible change in the upper bushings and piston pins. The only reason why I am changing the engines is the GT6 engine I have has a ruined block that would require being bored and a new crank. I have the TR6 engine from a 72 TR6 that I purchased from a wrecking lot for four hundred $$. The head off the GT6 engine is in fine shape, and I have two sets of carbs. Would it fit if I used a set of webers? The dual downdrafts look like a great setup!


Is the bonnett you are talking about a fiberglass bonnet? My bonnet is in perfect shape, and I really want to use it. Part of what makes a GT6 so attractive is the shape of that hood/ bonnet!!

Just purchased a set of floorboards and am starting to grind out the floors to install these!! My fifteen year old is cutting out the interior pieces so we can start seweing together the interior covers. Hmm what else...OH , does anyone know of a company that makes pre-bent roll bars, only want a small bar behind the drivers seat. You knoww, a sixteen year old is going to be driving it and I have an ex-wife that thinks it is too dangerous unless I put in a bar.

Hope you all can give me the answers I need!!

Jester


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John R Daviesmoderator
Charter Member
2555 posts (A TTN governor, governor)
Mar-31-01, 04:18 AM (PST)
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5. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #4
 
The block and the head are identical to the GT6 (but see below). It's the stroke of the crankshaft that increases the capacity. As the heads are the same externally (Later at least) TR/GT6 carbs are interchangeable, as are the Pi bits. Internally, because the stroke is bigger, so are the TR combustion chambers. Fit the GT6 head and your CR will be about 13. Could cause a little bit of pre-ignition. Also, I think the TR had the biggest ever Triumph intake valves. So fit the TR engine complete.

Get the TriumphTune Performance Manual from Moss:
www.moss-europe.co.uk for all this and more.

Indeed, I speak of a glassfibre bonnet. (GRP=glass reinforced plastic) Cheap (200?), bolts on, easily cut, modified and repaired; your precious, near irreplacable original bonnet can stay in store. The GRP one will be a copy of an original GT6 bonnet, with identical lines.

Jester, forgive me for intruding, but are you really going to let your 16 year old son/daughter out on the public roads in a 150bhp car? No disrespect to the lad, but is this wise?
My son's first car(at 18 in the UK) was a Spitfire, but at half that BHP, I felt he was safe. And he was, but I still worried. Our roads may be much more crowded than yours, but.....!
Your child is obviously keen and enthusiastic. How about some on track experience before the open road? A few spins and offs in relative safety are very sobering!
Will you upgrade the brakes to match the power?
Safety Devices (www.safetydevices.co.uk)(strange the lack of imagination in these website addresses!) are pre-eminent UK rollover bar and roll cage manufacturers. Or, the TSSC sells rollover bars (www.tssc.uk.com), but I think they are made by Safety Devices.
One reason why I felt my son was safe was because I fitted a full FIA race standard rollover bar, with a fixed diagonal. Bars without a diagonal are unsafe, in the view of the UK Motor Sport Association (was the RAC), and I agree.

I'm sorry if I can't give you USA equivalents - surely the North American equivalent of the TSSC (VTC?) can help you. Or lots of people on this site!
Best wishes, and safe driving!


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jester
Charter Member
1 posts (MGB Driver)
Sep-14-01, 04:43 PM (PST)
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6. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #5
 
   Well, where are we. My son and I have stripped the car and found a good bit of rust on the rear valance, and right hand rockers so pull out the VISA and get a few things on order. My son of course is still excited about his car, and he has the same vision that I do about the finished product. Dark Green with on offcenter gold stripe going up the hood and down the rear valance.

I have reviewed alot of things as my TR6 engine sits waiting for me to open her up and do some surgery. I think I want to stop thinking about engine swaps and just swap blocks. My original GT6 engine block was filled with rust from many years of sitting in the rain, but I have a good head, good carbs, good crank and rods, good cam and chain and sprockets, so I need to know, do I just swap my GT6 parts with the TR6 block and purchase a new set of pistons and rings to rebuild?? I assume that piston pin heights differ between the two engines.


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jester
Charter Member
1 posts (MGB Driver)
Oct-01-01, 05:02 PM (PST)
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7. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #6
 
   AAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just got my TR6 block back from the machine shop where I had them strip it and get it cleaned up, and it is unusable. I have a crack on one of my cylinders. So I am back to square one.

My original block isn't looking so bad now!! I cleaned it up in my solvent tank, I might bring it in for a dip, My only real problem lies in the threads for the head studs. I think I can chase them but am nervous about shoving a tap down the holes. I have a nice Craftsman set of tap and dies with only SAE and Metrics in it so I need to know what sizes do I need to find taps and dies for. Is this thing predominatley United national fine- UNF ????

Geeez will this ever become easier


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John R Daviesmoderator
Charter Member
2555 posts (A TTN governor, governor)
Oct-02-01, 02:47 PM (PST)
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8. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #7
 
Jester,
What a disappointment!

Studs are 7/16" UNF. I think the U stands for Unified.

I sympathise. I thought my Vitesse engine had survived the write off of the car, but a little dent in the timing cover hid a siezed timing chain and a broken cam shaft. I haven't dared go further in yet!

Best wishes
John


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jarredsdadteam
Charter Member
23 posts (Secretly covets Mazda Miatas)
Oct-03-01, 02:39 PM (PST)
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9. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #8
 
  
John,

Actually the UN stands for Unified. There UNC - Unified Coarse & UNF - Unified Fine.

My mechanical engineer brother-in-law explained all that when I was trying to figure how to mount my engine to the stand.

cheers,
steve


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John R Daviesmoderator
Charter Member
2555 posts (A TTN governor, governor)
Oct-03-01, 03:07 PM (PST)
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10. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #9
 
Steve,
Thanks! I was trying to remember what the 'N' stood for!
John


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jester
Charter Member
1 posts (MGB Driver)
Oct-05-01, 12:57 PM (PST)
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11. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #10
 
   Thanks for all the help, I can get my taps from a local company called "Tacoma Screw".

My original block is looking good, I brought it in and had it hot tanked and the machine shop said it will work. Bore it and it will be fine.

I have three cranks for Mk1 Gt6 engines and am now having to decide which is the best one. All three mic out the same on the rod journals at .010 under, meaning they have all three been ground at least once, but my crank main bearings mic at 2.3005, 2.2905, and 2.288, respectively. Yet my book says they should be 2.0005 or something like that?? Is my book quoting the size for the Vitesse engine?? The book I have is a twenty five year old "Haynes" manual that has been used quite extensively, might need to get a new book, which do you all reccommend?


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jester
Charter Member
1 posts (MGB Driver)
Mar-15-02, 11:36 AM (PST)
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12. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #11
 
   OK, here we go again- I went back to square one on this whole project. It was getting so damned exciting putting parts back on the car only to get that nasty call from my machine shop telling me I have nothing but boat anchors. Three bad cranks, two bad blocks and one set of good pistons, good head, good cam, bad pushrods, bad. bad. bad

Now I have another wrecking lot trying to selle me their engine. They have a mark2 GT6 engine. Haven't looked at it yet. Are the intake manifolds the same on a mark 1 and a mark 2?

They have a TR6 Engine, need to notch the pan- no problem, but the intake angles up so I would hit my hood- or so I've been told, how is the illeviated? Can't a person just cut the intake in half, then reweld it straight? using MIG or TIG?

Of course to use the TR6 engine I get the added bonus of spending more $$$ on carbs and intake to do the work with.


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snowygrouch
Charter Member
541 posts (TTN Power Member - a well respected man)
Mar-15-02, 02:55 PM (PST)
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13. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #12
 
   Jester,
Dont know about the angles but send me the manifold and I`ll cut it to the desired angle and TIG weld it for you.
You won`t find anyone who can do it better I promise!
Calum


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John R Daviesmoderator
Charter Member
2555 posts (A TTN governor, governor)
Mar-17-02, 04:59 AM (PST)
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14. "RE: TR6 Engine swap"
In response to message #13
 
Jester,
The 2000 & 2500 cars had the engine canted, so that the inlet manifold would angle up on a GT6 with the engine vertical. I think (underlined) that the TR6 also had a vertical engine, so you won't have that problem. Query: check me on the TR Forum?
John


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